Photo courtesy of Jim Marten
Humor suffuses “Bait and Switch,” a podcast hosted by a pair of Tosans, Jim Marten and Chris Beyer, but from the start, it was also an interview show—delivered with a wry twist. The nearly weekly podcast has been online for a couple years and ramped up during the COVID crisis. Off the Cuff caught up with Marten and Beyer, who since spring have worked together and interviewed guests via Zoom.
How did you guys meet?
J.M.:I lived across the street from Chris growing up and we've stayed in touch our whole lives.
Tell me how Bait & Switch began. Were you originally focused on comedy?
C.B.: The idea for the podcast really occurred to me as just an afterthought one afternoon. It just so happened that Jim stopped in my office literally minutes later. I sheepishly mentioned it to him and he was enthusiastically interested. So I guess that was the sign.
The original focus was comedy. It still is, however because the virus issue has forced us to record via Zoom things have changed a little. Our style sometimes requires the rapport and timing that can be difficult over a laptop’s camera. That being said, we’ve had some great “skit” style episodes via Zoom ( i.e. S2 E14 - “Iron Will” )
J.M.: Growing up, Chris and I have always had a good comedic rapport. We've always seemed to be able to carry jokes together, each of us contributing something different to make the jokes even better. I didn't realize it at the time but what we were really doing was sort of playing improv games. So when we talked about starting the podcast, that's what I pictured in my head- talking about subjects and stories that would take off in a funny direction because of our own abilities to make things funny together. Although some of our methods have changed and shifted as the show has progressed, our goal has always been to entertain people.
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Are you paying attention only to people in the Milwaukee area or do you go beyond Southeast Wisconsin for guests?
J.M.: Not surprisingly our early episodes featured friends and people we knew from the area. Our circle of influence grew from these guests because they really enjoyed being on our show and they referred others to be on our show. Now because of Zoom those referrals can be from anywhere, so that’s been a blessing in disguise.
C.B.: Yeah, the whole virus situation forced us out of the studio and onto our computers. In retrospect it’s been a plus in some ways. For example, we have an upcoming interview with former Brewer Randy Lerch who lives in California. Prior to this year we wouldn’t have thought of doing an interview like that.
You’ve had a lot of local media people on your show—why the interest in that profession?
C.B.: Initially we just had our friends as guests, and we were very proud of those episodes. However, we felt it would be a good idea to get “name” guests on the show to give our show more credibility and hopefully more listeners. ( WISN’s Sheldon Dutes S3 E6 and S3 E6A is a good example)
J.M.: Many of the local media guests happened to be people with either knew, or our friends knew. NPR’s Mitch Teich coached my son's Little League Team who introduced us to Bonnie North. Chris knew someone who knew Crocker Stephenson and then he was able to get fellow Milwaukee Journal columnist Jim Stingl on the show as well. Some friends of ours knew Scott Paulus (photographer for the Milwaukee Brewers) who then referred his buddy Steve Palec. We really try to make it a fun experience for our guests and because of that, many of them have been willing to refer their friends to our show. One guest leads to another. It’s our own game of “6 degrees to Kevin Bacon.”
One of the coolest things about this whole experience is meeting all the people that we’ve had on the show. It hasn't just been meeting these people, but I feel like I’ve actually become friends with a lot of them. I’m a people person, so that's been really rewarding for me.
Do you prepare ahead of time—with exhaustive research and a list of questions—or are you doing improv?
C.B.: I’d say there are three types of episodes. In our general biographical interviews, we both come prepared with questions.
In our comic interviews I tend to do the prep work on developing topics and the flow between them. For these episodes Jim serves as the “straight” man, which is probably the more difficult part. He has to sense which direction I’m hoping to take the conversation and keep our guest in on the joke. The hope is that we take the premise and make it more absurd and silly. That is really at the heart of the show.
Lastly we have our “skit” shows which have a general premise with a narrative framework that we improv within. Sometimes the guest is told in advance what their part will be, and sometimes the premise is thrown at them with no prior warning. Those have been some of the most fun episodes. It’s fun to watch a guest who thought this was going to be a typical interview get confused and then realize that they will have to be creative on the spot. It’s great when the guest takes the premise places we didn’t anticipate.
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J.M.: Usually, I don’t want to know too much. I feel the show is more spontaneous that way. I feel like one of my strengths is being able to create rapport with people pretty quickly, helping them to feel comfortable and allowing us to joke around with them to the point where they feel good about jumping in on the comedy.
I’ve started to do a little more research recently because I’ve caught myself asking guests questions that I really should've known before they came on the show. That’s been a little embarrassing. I’ve started to realize that, while I might consider it “Just our little podcast,” a lot of people who come on the show see it as a pretty big deal. So lately I’ve been doing more research into the background of our guests (especially the ones who are a little more well known), if for no other reason than to be respectful of their time.
Why do you think podcasting has become so prevalent and so popular?
C.B.: Podcasts from the listener standpoint are popular because you can hear a conversation about any topic that interests you. You can stop and start them anytime, often times there are no commercials, and you can keep them running in your headphones and Bluetooth devices as you go about your day, unlike say radio.
J.M.: I think one of the main reasons more people have started doing podcasts is that the technology and the setup is easy, even for a relative novice. We’ve been doing our podcast for about three years, and even in that time the platforms have evolved so much. You can host a podcast for free. Hosting sites have editing software available and they will automatically register your podcast with all of the appropriate outlets (iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, etc.). It’s a lot less daunting of a task than it used to be.
C.B. For me the appeal of podcasting as a co-host of one is the art of it. Developing concepts, recording them, and editing them into something that is worth a listen. Our goal is that our conversations are fun and hopefully funny, and I think we’ve accomplished that for the most part.
Our podcast is unique in that we don’t really do topics often. Listeners of our podcast have to buy into us and the atypical directions our interview often go. I’m proud that we have continued to expand the podcast creatively. (S3 E1 Possibly True Crime Podcast ).
I think it’s a good sign that our audience has continued to grow despite not having a built in audience of an overarching topic like sports, pop culture, current events, etc.
