A Conversation with Milwaukee Art Museum’s New Director

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Photo by Valerie Hill

Kim Sajet

Kim Sajet

On a late winter afternoon, I had the pleasure of speaking with the Milwaukee Art Museum’s new director, Kim Sajet, about everything from her love of language to stained glass to Jerry Saltz—and her early thoughts about where she might steer the museum. The conversation warmed my chilly spirit and gave me the sense that a season of renewal might be arriving for our arts community as surely as it was for the weather.

At the time of our interview, I hadn’t heard a disparaging word about Sajet from anyone—only praise and admiration from dozens of art folks across wildly different backgrounds. That, of course, piqued my curiosity. It also stirred a giddy hope I’ve learned to temper over 15 years in the Milwaukee art world. I’m happy to report the goodwill tracked. She’s a delight—and I’d like to think we got lucky. Long after our conversation ended, I found myself wondering what this stroke of luck might mean for Milwaukee’s art scene as we head into the spring of a rapidly evolving cultural climate.

SM: I heard you were born and raised in Australia, yes?

KS: Raised, actually.

SM: Oh, so where were you born?

KS: I was born in Nigeria, raised in Australia, a Dutch citizen, and I've been here (United States) for 30 years.

SM: Wow, do you get back to Holland often?

KS: I have a home there … our family has a home there. I have a severely disabled brother in a high-care institution in the Netherlands. So, I'm constantly doing the trip there and back to be with him. He lives in a town called Vught, which is outside of Hertogenbosch, or DenBosch, which I guess is the English translation.

SM: I used to go to a school called Nijenrode every summer…

KS: Oh my gosh, you went to Nijenrode?!

SM: Every summer.

KS: Well, our home is in Hilversum. And Nijenrode is in Loenen aan de Vecht. It's around that area, I think.

SM: Perhaps, I was young and cloistered. I used to bartend there in the summer. There was a castle and I remember the bar was in a dungeon?

KS: So, did you do business?

SM: I had a friend who did. He was a foreign exchange student at my school, and I went to visit him in the summers. He's still my friend today—33 years later. How’s that for the value of culture and exchange? Anyway, so you came to the States—and did that transition encourage the art bug in you or did you have it your whole life?

KS: We came to the States about 30 years ago. I had already run two museums before that time. I'd run the Mornington Peninsula Regional Gallery, which is in Melbourne, Australia, and then the Waverly Gallery. I'd gone back for school, and my undergraduate was in art and French. Then I went back for a museum studies degree and an MBA. We came to the States because my husband planned to do his PhD at Temple University, and we decided to relocate at that point.

SM: What was your initial interest in the arts? Was it historical, as a savorer of fine things? What were your earliest inclinations?

KS: My younger brother was born severely disabled—autistic, deaf. He has a mental capacity of about a 2-year-old. And my mother was both a social worker and a psychologist. My father was a businessman, but, you know, my entire young life was working with people with disabilities—physical mostly, but also mental disabilities. It was so consuming that I hardly thought about much beyond it. And then there was a certain point where I wondered what else excited me. At that time, I just happened to get very interested in history, art, art making, and just sort of started really exploring that.

This was in high school, and I started making art. In Australia at the time, the curriculum was kind of split in two. So 50% was theory—art theory, learning all about art history—and the other half was actually making art. I did that for my final year and did a project with stained glass windows, which ended up in our family home. There were four windows of a tree with Australian native birds. I think there was a kookaburra, a cockatoo, some rosellas—you probably don't know what these are. There were these four birds. I completed that part of the program and then sat the exam for art history and theory and here I am.

SM: Wow, a stained-glass window! So cool. Was it an ornamental architectural fixture or a permanent window? Do you still have it?

KS: Yes, permanent. It's still there. My parents—my mom doesn't live in that house anymore—but you can still go past and see the windows.

SM: Oh my gosh, you should go get those windows!!

KS: You can still drive by and look at it if you’d like!

SM: You should see if they'll trade you for them. Take the windows out and install them in Milwaukee?

KS: I'm not really that attached to it. I know at one point my mum knocked on the door and said, “Can I just go and have a look at those windows?” And they're like, “Ah, we love these windows,” so that’s satisfying.

SM: Such a cool story! So, you're kind of a famous artist? Do you still have an art practice today, still make stuff?

KS: I do, and then I write. I really do a lot of writing now, rather than visual art or studio art. I have a book that's about to be published by Princeton University Press. It will come out next year.

SM: What's the subject?

KS: It's about early photography—about the period of Reconstruction and the carte-de-visite photograph in America.

SM: Is that your academic specialty?

KS: No, I consider my academic specialty to be aesthetics and semiotics—so aesthetic theory—but there's probably not a lot of call for that at the moment. But I'm interested in how science and symbols, and to some extent language, change over time and have different meanings attached to them in different circumstances.

SM: Me too!

KS: Do you speak any other languages?

SM: I do not. Well, I speak a little French. I studied in France, but never really picked it up.

KS: Because I speak fluent Dutch as well and there were just expressions either in English or in Dutch that didn’t translate. And my French is OK, but to the level where you're like, OK, I wish I could access a certain phrase in this particular language so I could express to you what that actually means in this other language.

SM: Indeed, so from Europe back to Milwaukee—when did you first visit Milwaukee? Had you been here before your candidacy for this role?

KS: I had been once before. It was a pretty long time ago—pre-COVID. I came to see the Kandinsky show here. I think it was 2013 or 2014 from what I can remember. But it was really sort of a fly-in, fly-out. So I really got to know the city when I looked into it in depth, obviously, when I started interviewing for the job. My impression of the city developed from a number of encounters, and then talking to colleagues and kind of getting a sense of the collection, what the leadership was like, what the board wanted to achieve. And then also, you know, what the city was like and did I want to live here.

SM: You were at the National Portrait Museum before, right? My brother used to work for the Smithsonian as a videographer. I think he worked with you there. He produced all the video documentation of art lectures—like when Jerry Saltz was there. I remember he called me and asked if I knew him. I was like, “Of course.” I said he was like the art world’s Dick Vitale—kind of an enthusiastic mascot.

KS: I always think of him as Puck. Puckish guy.

SM: He is puckish, such a good adjective. You’ve been here about five months now. What are you most excited to accomplish?

KS: I want the Milwaukee Art Museum to be a place of wonder, joy, learning, and community that helps create a better future. Rather than defining it simply as a place with objects on the walls, I see it as a program of creativity and innovation that happens to include those objects. People should be able to enter the museum through many different doors. Maybe you come with your grandkids on a school trip, maybe for a lecture, maybe for a good cup of coffee, maybe just to wander through an exhibition. If all those experiences can coexist, the museum becomes an empowering civic space.

SM: Museums often feel like temples, I think. How do we reconcile the ideals you mentioned with the reality that art museums can be imperious?

KS: Museums historically did grow out of palaces. The Louvre was literally a palace before Napoleon declared it open to the public. Architecturally many museums resemble classical temples—the Parthenon model. Today our challenge is to create layers of experience. You can present challenging art but should explain it in different ways for different audiences. A 12th-grade student might approach a Gertrude Abercrombie exhibition differently than an international visitor or an art insider from Chicago. Our goal is to be nimble and welcoming, while still maintaining rigor.

SM: I always try to avoid insider language when I talk about art. I give tours at Saint Kate and learned that you have to meet people where they are because some people actually want art historical context and then some people approach it personally. My go-to is to say art is just like any human that may be a friend. It doesn't have to have meaning, but they're all primary and independent. You know, and some friends are extroverts, others reserved. You have friends who are quiet, but you trust the hell out of them, because when they do say something, it matters.

KS: Exactly.

SM: Let me ask you this. Complete the sentence: In five years, I’ll feel satisfied with my tenure at MAM if …

KS: If we have a more diverse audience and enough great programming that new audiences feel the museum is an indispensable part of their cultural life.

SM: Hallelujah. And in your early adventures exploring Milwaukee—what eccentric turnips have you pulled up?

KS: It’s a very robust arts community, though I’ve only scratched the surface. I went to a wonderful Ruth Arts event. I’ve visited the Haggerty. I went to the Milwaukee Rep recently. I hopped around Gallery Night last weekend. I’m mostly just trying to learn the ecosystem a little at a time. One thing I really enjoy when the weather cooperates is riding my bike to work. It’s a beautiful city to explore that way.

SM: I have to say I appreciate that you made it to so many places on Gallery Night. My friend Sasha—the Pfister artist-in-residence—mentioned you stopped by.

KS: Yes, it was lovely to see her.

SM: For what it’s worth, I appreciate your candor and your enthusiasm for Milwaukee. Thanks for taking the time to chat. I hope we can do it again.

KS: You're welcome—that’s a very kind thing to say.

SM: Let’s do some good stuff, right? It’s a city worth elevating.

KS: Absolutely.

SM: Well, Kim, I’ll see you around the block. Good luck until then.