Chuck Chvala, former Wisconsin State Senate Majority Leader
Chuck Chvala was the Democratic Wisconsin Senate majority leader from 1996 through 2002. He negotiated three biennial budgets with a Republican governor and a Republican-controlled Assembly in place during each of those budgets. For several years, he has provided the Democratic perspective in the WisPolitics “Insiders” podcast—first with former Republican state Sen. Ted Kanavas and, since Ted’s passing, with former Republican Assembly Speaker Scott Jensen.
Chuck, you do a WisPolitics “Insiders” Podcast with former Assembly Speaker Scott Jensen where you discuss Wisconsin state government and elections. You created a lot of buzz saying that the most recent state budget was a disaster. Why did you take such a tough stance about the budget?
I was trying to jump-start a conversation about how progressives, that would be most Democrats these days, can achieve policy objectives in a world where Republicans have gerrymandered both the state Senate and Assembly in a way which makes it extraordinarily difficult for Democrats to have a majority in either house.
I must admit you certainly succeeded in starting a conversation. You’re right that the deck is stacked against the Democrats. How could the Democratic side have acted any differently?
Democrats need to combine the power of the governor’s office and the opportunity provided by a must-pass state budget in order for significant policy objectives to be achieved despite the recalcitrance of the Republicans. At the end of the day, elections aren’t just about winning, they’re about policies that make a difference in the lives of regular working people across the state.
It seems as if you concede that Gov. Tony Evers was negotiating from a difficult position.
Yes, Gov. Evers is very much in the same place at this point in his first term as Barack Obama was as president. Both President Obama and Gov. Evers are statesmen committed to serving everyone, including conservatives. Both reached out to Republicans and tried to work with them. This did not work out in either case, because these Republicans are not normal Republicans; they are committed to ideological obstructionism, which prevents some great programs from being approved.
So how did you see Obama pivot?
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President Obama learned that he would have to move forward without any help from Republicans. You may recall that U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell infamously said that the Senate Republicans’ entire job was to keep Obama from being reelected. For example, to borrow a poker reference, President Obama went all-in on the Affordable Care Act (ACA), which passed without a single Republican vote. This provided health care for tens of millions of people and held down health care costs for the rest of us who have insurance. This was a great victory.
You think Gov. Evers is learning a similar lesson?
Yes; he is a very smart and capable guy, and I think he will pivot in his approach to the legislature. Unfortunately, these rightwing ideological Republicans will only respond to strength.
So you think the Republicans are acting like bullies?
Yes, and eventually you have to stand up to bullies. I expect that Gov. Evers now understands that the Republicans have no interest in working with him and will do anything to obstruct his agenda.
Then how do you see Evers pivoting like Obama did?
The most obvious issue is taking the federal health care money.
There is a lot support for this.
Yes; 70% of Wisconsinites said in a recent poll that they wanted Wisconsin to take the money. We are the only Big-10 state which does not take the federal health care money. We are the only state east of the Mississippi River (outside of the Deep South) that doesn’t take the federal health care money. Even Vice President Mike Pence’s Indiana and Mitch McConnell’s Kentucky take the federal health care money!
Why do some Republican states take federal health care money but Wisconsin won’t?
Even Republican states and Republican voters understand that, when billions of their taxpayer dollars are sent to Washington, D.C., they want their fair share back. This is especially true when it means lower health care premiums for everyone, more coverage for people in the state and extra money which could be used to fund special education, other health care initiatives and even roads in the state.
What kind of financial loss in dollar terms does this mean for Wisconsin?
Wisconsin has already lost more than $1 billion and is on pace to lose more than $300 million more.
Why do you see Wisconsin stuck here?
Republicans have this fantasy that they are going to roll back the ACA, which is becoming more popular every year. Even Donald Trump, with majorities in both houses of Congress, couldn’t make that happen. Former Gov. Scott Walker wanted to be the rightwing darling when he ran for president. He was willing to make all of Wisconsin suffer to achieve his political ambitions. By not accepting the federal health care money and allowing Wisconsin residents’ premiums to increase, Walker played it as cutting or rejecting an “entitlement” expansion. That’s big brownie points in rightwing donor circles.
Both President Obama and Gov. Evers clearly recognize that, as the elected executive, they have an obligation to bring the country/state together. That leadership role is especially important given how divisive guys like Trump and Walker have been.
In fact, that probably explains much of the reason for Gov. Evers deciding to sign a budget hoping to move forward in a positive way, establishing a far different tone than his predecessor, who was all about dividing the state into warring camps.
By pushing forward more aggressively, wouldn’t Evers create more division between the Republicans and the Democrats?
No, because Evers’ two signature issues, health care and education, are not divisive. In fact, 70% of the people of Wisconsin support taking the federal health care money, and 74% support a dramatic increase in special education funding. In the divided country and state we have now, that is as close to public unanimity as you can get. Clearly, support extends well beyond Democrats and independents well into moderate Republican Party turf.
So, what’s stopping this from happening?
The only thing that stands in the way of these policies are rightwing ideologues in the legislature who have been emboldened by their gerrymandered districts. I believe that Gov. Evers taking on the extreme right in the legislature on behalf of those 70-74% of Wisconsinites who support these policies will be seen as an act of statesmanship and leadership in an effort to unite around common goals and shared values.
