Photo by Tom Jenz
Milwaukee Police Chief Jeffrey Norman and Captain Sheronda Grant
Milwaukee Police Chief Jeffrey Norman and Captain Sheronda Grant
I was interested in hearing Police Chief Norman’s impressions on how the MPD is doing through late 2023. A long-time veteran of law enforcement, Chief Norman holds a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from UWM, a Masters of Public Administration from Kaplan University, and a law degree from Marquette University Law School. He grew up in Milwaukee and knows the streets.
I met him in the downtown Police Administration Building. During our long conversation, he seemed eager to share his ideas. He speaks through a calm demeanor, sometimes sprinkled with humor. He was rarely defensive.
Just recently, the Milwaukee Police Department released their third quarter crime review. Overall, crime is down 12% year to date. Homicide is down, property crime has decreased by 17%, and auto thefts have decreased by 29%. Can you comment on these figures? Also, what are the police are working on for further improvement? For instance, I think non-fatal shootings and carjackings are up slightly.
Keep in mind that 12% down this year is on top of 13% down from last year. I think the intentionality of the police partnering with all different aspects of our community has helped—elected officials, business leaders, community stakeholders and activists. I’m referring to everyone who wants to change the impact of crime. Our crime strategy is not what police departments have employed in the past. We emphasize collaboration, working side by side with our city. In regards to our non-fatal shootings and carjackings, those figures are driven mainly by our younger generation. For example, we are seeing a number of accidental, non-fatal shootings, kids getting hold of firearms, shooting each other or themselves. Also, gun owners sometimes leave firearms in vehicles and in their homes. As for carjackings, they are committed by younger people, too.
What is the police department doing about these non-fatal shootings and the carjackings?
We are partnering with the faith-based community.
I understand. So many of inner-city urban residents attend or are members of churches. Their activities are not just religious but also social.
Absolutely. We have a community engagement manager, Marcy Patterson, who is working, galvanizing, and connecting with our faith-based community including the Salvation Army.
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I’ve found that many city residents’ perception of the police is that they are supposed prevent crime. It seems to me that the police rather react to crimes that are committed. For instance, in the nearly all-white, upper middle-class community of Cedarburg, there is very little crime. Yet, residents do not credit the Cedarburg police for preventing crime. Why do many Milwaukee city residents and even the media often blame police for criminal activity?
I’m glad you brought up prevention. The police do have a role in prevention. For example, we support block watches, neighbors working together as a line of defense against crime. But you captured it right because we are experts in law enforcement, and we also have a responsibility to police ourselves. Police are the low hanging fruit in that we are more visible than any other organization. Therefore, it’s easy to focus on us. When Covid shut down almost everything in 2020, we were still out there. Because of our work on the streets, our accountability is more public, and that might cause the public to feel like we’ve failed them. It’s important that we communicate as to what is actually our responsibility.
What do you think the police should be responsible for?
We are sworn to enforce the law. That is our primary directive. Our elected officials make the laws and assign us the responsibility of enforcement. But to enforce laws, we need community engagement to know what’s going on. We are involved in public service, but that is not our primary responsibility. There are so many other entities out there who work in public service.
Let’s talk about the hiring and training of new police officers for the coming year, 2024. How many police officers will be needed and why will they be needed? Finally, will your budget include enough money for new hires?
Presently, we are relatively down in the number of police officers we need. We presently have about 1,600 sworn officers, but we will need about 1,725 officers in the coming years. We do lose officers to other careers or to retirement or to other departments. As with last year, if the city allows us three classes of 65 trainees each, then theoretically we’d be hiring about 195. This will all be based on the city budget. But we are currently recruiting. Keep in mind, a traffic stop can only be done by a sworn officer.
How long does it take to train a police officer before he or she is ready for full time assignments?
Six months, 720 hours. However, a new officer is on probation for a year and a half.
The American Civil Liberties Union, the ACLU, recently issued a press release based on the nonprofit Crime and Justice Institute Report after a five-year research study—and I quote from the study—“Black Milwaukeeans continue to be subjected to stops, frisks and encounters at far-higher rates than Milwaukeeans of other races. The report also finds that MPD officers continue to stop and frisk people without reasonable suspicion, as required by law, at rates that violate the Collins settlement.” What is your reaction to this ACLU press release?
NOTE: In 2018, the City of Milwaukee entered into a settlement agreement requiring MPD and the FPC to change stop-and-frisk policies, ensure stops and frisks are documented and constitutional, and improve training, supervision, auditing, and discipline of officers on stop and frisk and racial profiling issues.
This is an active lawsuit, so I cannot comment too much. However, I will say the Milwaukee Police Department that existed five years ago when the Collins settlement went into effect is not the Police Department of today. We have made great strides to the work, commitment, and transparency as to what policing looks like in our city. I am committed to having our officers operate in a fair and impartial way.
As to the Crime and Justice Institute Report, I’m wondering why would a police officer ever stop and frisk someone without ‘reasonable suspicion?’ Seems like a waste of his or her time.
We must always be actively cognizant of unconscious bias. As law enforcement, we must always remain objective.
The Report measures the department’s documentation efforts related to reasonable suspicion. When a police officer stops someone, they are taking time from that person’s life. That officer must always have a lawful reason to stop someone and question them. With that, we have to appropriately document that lawful reason.
Recently, I interviewed Amanda De Leon, who is the liaison officer for Community Medical Services South Milwaukee (CMS). The goal of CMS is lowering opiod addiction including distributing free temporary antidotes such as Narcan and fentanyl strips. Many of the Milwaukee fire fighters now are trained to administer these Narcan and fentanyl strips to people who are overdosing. CMS is also working with Police District 2 and Captain Patrick Pajot. The goal is for police to carry the antidotes. What are police presently doing to handle drug addicts they encounter?
Police officers have been carrying Narcan for a long time and are trained to administer it. We are partnering with the fire department and with CMS. We are doing everything we can to intervene and abate Opioid overdosing, and to save lives.
I ran into Sedan Smith, whose brother, Syville, was killed by a police officer in the 2016 unrest in Sherman Park. That incident caused some rioting and burnings in the area. I asked Sedan Smith if he was bitter at the cops. He said he was not, and that he tries to interact with law enforcement, and he had high praise for you. It seems like the police are making progress interacting with street leaders and residents. Am I right?
Yes, I have talked with Sedan. As far as interactions with residents, we align with our city leaders in trying to interact with all residents. There is a lot of community momentum and it’s helped through Marcy Patterson, community engagement manager for the police department. The police enjoy trust in some parts of the city, have some trust in others, and then there are parts of the city where we have no trust. But it is still our duty to engage with all three parts. We don’t just focus on those who love us best. I encourage our police officers to nurture good relationships with all residents.
The police put on block party events by district, I believe. The goal is for officers to interact with neighborhood residents in a relaxed way.
We have so many events. Seems like I attend a neighborhood or organizational event seven days a week. Community engagement isn’t perfect, but I do see a lot of hope and momentum.
You seem to be quite active in community engagement. I’ve seen you at a number of events, chatting with urban residents. - and even dancing with urban residents.
(laughing) You just had to put that in there, Tom, didn’t you? I might start charging for my dances.
What is your take as to how the city residents are feeling these days?
The other day a city resident asked me for my autograph. That surprised me because I’m not some pop star or sports figure. However, it is humbling to know that the work we are doing has taken notice. I’ve come to find that people are more appreciative than we as police think they are. We like hearing good feedback. I feel optimistic that we are on the right track. We are being in more spaces than we previously we were not known to be in.
It probably comes down to more citizens being involved in crime prevention.
An example: There was a serious incident where children had done the shootings. Surprisingly, the parents turned their children into the police. That’s huge because the parents went against their own interest. Basically, that told me those parents trusted the police enough to trust us to do right with their children. I think that policing is all our responsibility including parents. Responsible parents police their children. Responsible residents police their neighbors. Everyone has a role in community safety.
There are so many nonprofit and government organizations involved in some aspect of community aid. I’ve heard them called “silos” because they often act independent of one another.
There are too many silos—“If it’s not in my backyard, it’s not my problem.” I was speaking at a Boys & Girls Club event, and I asked the young people, ‘What as parents and adults can we do for you?”
What did the kids say?
They said, “Listen to us.” They said, “We have mental health issues, we have suggestions and ideas, but no one is talking to us. They talk over us.” They also said that the pandemic did a job on them as regards to mental health and anxiety. They want to engage with adults and parents in a genuine conversation.
Chief Norman once told me that the biggest challenge of the Milwaukee Police Department is trust, adding, “Historically, police departments have been involved in some dark situations, locally and nationally. Many segments of our society have not forgotten those transgressions. As police, we have to own that narrative. We have to learn how to be better, how to be law enforcement for all residents. You can go back as far as the Civil Rights movement, then George Floyd, and locally Dontre Hamilton, Frank Jude, and Syville Smith. Those incidents burned negative images about improper police behavior. Residents need to feel that police are hearing them, that a just process is taking place, that police can be trusted.”
