Photo by Tom Jenz
Milwaukee Police Chief Jeffrey Norman
Milwaukee Police Chief Jeffrey Norman
On Nov. 4, the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission voted unanimously to appoint Jeffrey Norman to the police chief position for the next four years. Norman had served as acting police chief for nearly a year and has been a member of the Milwaukee Police Department for over 25 years.
“He is the best man for the job. He’s the top cop that we need,” said Common Council President Cavalier Johnson.
With crime and controversy on the increase, Norman’s job will be an enormous challenge and he comes well equipped. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from UWM, a Masters of Public Administration from Kaplan University and a law degree from Marquette University. He grew up in Milwaukee and knows the streets. During our one hour discussion in the Downtown Police Administration Building, the enthusiasm for his job came shining through
A while ago you told me, “What’s the number one challenge of the police department? Is it violence, is it reckless driving? No, it’s trust. Trust is the biggest challenge for the MPD.” What do you mean trust is the biggest challenge?
Historically, police departments have been involved in some dark situations, locally and nationally. Many segments of our society have not forgotten those transgressions. As police, we have to own that narrative. We have to learn how to be better, how to be law enforcement for all citizens. You can go back as far as the civil rights movement, then George Floyd and—locally—Dontre Hamilton, Frank Jude, Jacob Blake. Those incidents burned negative images about improper police behavior. Citizens need to feel that police are hearing them, that a just process is taking place, that police can be trusted.
And so this concept of trust is something you pass onto people working for you?
Absolutely. Police should be role models. In training, we teach fair and impartial policing, procedural justice. We teach “What can we as police do to change the narrative of mistrust?” There are parts of our city where we have very little trust.
There is public confusion over whether there will be more or less police officers in 2022. For instance, not long ago, the Common Council adopted the 2022 city budget and approved a measure that allows the Milwaukee Police Department to hire 195 “additional officers." But I thought 120 positions had been eliminated in 2021. Will you actually have more officers this coming year than last year?
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First of all, the attrition was going on before 2020. In the last couple years, through attrition, we’ve lost about 200 police officers, and we still continue to lose some. Based on what I’ve been told and even with the replacement of 195 officers in 2022, we will be under 25 officers in authorized strength. I take exception to the words “additional officers” because really we are just getting replacement officers. Also, there is the process of hiring and six months of training. This all takes time. Our public needs more police officers to do sworn things.
What about efficiency? Can you improve efficiency to make up for loss of officers?
We can improve our technology. The future plan is that police officers gather the information which is passed onto civilian computer data analysts who work together with investigators to further the prosecution. I am open to this kind of efficient process.
Here is my experience in spending time in the inner city. I find that 98% of the residents are law abiding residents and not criminals, drug dealers, or car thieves. But these residents seem to be reluctant to help the police sometimes, even to call 911. In other words, they want police in their neighborhoods, but yet they don’t. It’s almost a contradiction based on emotion. Not long ago, I did a story on one of your homicide detectives, Jeremiah Jackson. He concurred and said some residents who witness crimes are reluctant to come forward.
Detective Jackson made a valid point. There is a difference between snitches who might betray a friend compared to being a responsible witness who wants to protect their own community. A good witness is proactive, telling police which individuals are doing harm. But we as police have to work on better approaches to getting cooperation. We have to show we have the residents’ best interests in mind. That is why I support community engagement, talking to residents before a crisis happens. We need to engage people at the parks, events or community meetings. This is trust-building, a connection established. There are a lot of hurdles to overcome in our police-community relations. It starts with the grassroots groups like Running Rebels or Safe and Sound.
Let’s take an area that has its share of criminal activity, the Sherman Park area. Would it help to have the same police officers assigned to that area every week so that the residents get to know them? In other words, the old-fashioned cop walking the beat.
With the reduction in officers, that is difficult. For example, District 7 encompasses Sherman Park. District 7 has squad areas, maybe 10 by10 block zones. For the same officers to patrol one squad area regularly would be a huge resource investment. Meaning our officers now have larger areas to patrol, and that does not give them the level of intimate service I’d like to see. Compare it to air travel. Twenty first class passengers might be served by three flight attendants who get to know them. But the 200 coach passengers won’t have enough flight attendants to give much personal service.
Is that your goal to get more officers who can do more community service like you describe?
It works on relationship building. I tell my teammates that you won’t get more resources unless you do right with the resources you already have. You need to make inroads with your elected officials and community stakeholders, need them to understand what policing looks like in the 21st century. I’m trying to build relationships with elected officials and with residents. We need to be positive and interactive with our public. I’m trying to provide leadership to make sure this happens. This is who I am.
I’d like to discuss a few of your comments from a Q&A session in the 5th Ward on the South Side Some women brought up the big problem of reckless drivers. You said, “When it comes to juvenile car stealing and reckless driving—the level of care is not there for kids in many families.” I assume you meant it is not law enforcement’s responsibility to change juvenile behavior.
In regard to our young people, I’d like to make an analogy, the canary in the mine. Miners used to bring a canary into the underground mine. When the canary fell over, they knew methane gas was in the air, and it was time to get out of the mine. Our kids’ behavior is kind of like that canary. There are problems in our community not being addressed. Law enforcement is only one part of the solution. Police can’t do it all. We as a society need collaboration. Young people need mentors, need long term guidance, good parents, community support and involved activists who go into our schools and deliver positive advice. To “lock ‘em up and put ‘em away” is not the answer.
The ACLU seems like they lean toward criticizing police behavior. At the Q&A, I noticed that ACLU members and other activists seem to think that cops treat Black folks unfairly. You gave a pretty clear answer. You said—“I am Black. My wife is Black. My children are Black. I encourage our police force to treat people of all colors equally.”
I do believe that. I respect the ACLU, their passion. Over history, the ACLU lawyers have won important cases to help with civil rights. Yet sometimes, they get too caught up in their passions and don’t realize police might be willing to work with them. I want to work with the ACLU and certain activists.
I don’t think the way to go about change is for groups to be combative. Another C word would work better: compromise.
We can have differences of opinion but we don’t have to be disrespectful. Ideally, we can reach similar goals but with different ways of going about it. Win-Lose usually doesn’t do well with people or groups. Compromise usually does.
At the meeting, it was brought up that domestic violence is a big problem. You said, “Crime is generated out of societal ills, from troubled families. Cops can’t intervene in family matters.” Seems like you were saying that cops can’t control human dysfunction, right?
Conflict resolution is what we deal with. It’s hard to intervene when you have issues of emotion, when someone is holding a gun or threatening another person. Police really can’t impact those kind of situations.
I’ve heard from a number of Black women in the inner city that a big issue for them is domestic violence. A man might be given a restraining order, but he ignores it.
Regarding a restraining order, it does give police more leverage to make an arrest, assuming it’s reported. But other partners work hard to be part of interventions. There are classes in anger management and conflict resolution. Police react to violence, but not exactly prevention, and yet we can still collaborate with partners like Sojourner Family Peace Center or the Office of Violent Prevention. We can help victims of domestic abuse.
At that recent meeting, you said, “We have to rely on outside sources to help with policing.” This was in response to the search for the child Major Harris who was later found dead in a dumpster, having been murdered. Residents walked the streets and alleys and helped you search for Major Harris.
That effort had never been done before. Our team realized that citizens wanted to do something. We used residents, the media and the city’s Office of Violence Prevention. We hope to use this as a template for future collaborations.
What can you tell the public to help them have a better understanding of police procedure or of the pressure policemen are under each day?
We have the Citizen Training Academy. Over a period of several weeks, two hours a day, citizens can see what police training is like and also the rigors and stresses of a police officer. They have a real-world experience of what it’s like to be an officer in our community. And we welcome members of the media to go through citizen training. You can also visit our Facebook page to read about what is happening with police. We get anywhere from 700,000 to a million hits a month. We need to be proactive in telling the public what we are doing.
You know, it’s kind of odd, but I’ve told a few of the Black street leaders that you would be happy to meet with them. But they seem reluctant. I guess I don’t understand this. Wouldn’t a dialog help heal the divide?
Sometimes, the street activists don’t want to get too close with police because they might lose credibility with those they serve. I’d be willing to meet and talk, but I don’t like to do it in front of TV cameras because I want more meaningful conversation.
I’ve noticed with my own Facebook followers and friends that there is so much negative misinformation passed along about law enforcement. Kind of breaks my heart.
The social media is a blessing and a curse. Blessing in our ability to reach so many people. Curse because if the wrong information is put out there, it goes viral. It’s important for the police to put out the counter-narrative because if only one narrative hangs out there, it becomes “the truth.” That leads to misunderstanding.
