Fran Lebowitz Brings Her Sardonic Show to the Pabst

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Photo via New York Magazine

Fran Lebowitz

        “Success didn't spoil me; I've always been insufferable.”

                                                -Francis Ann Lebowitz

In a world hopelessly inundated by opinionated social platformers and the 24/7 news cycle’s self-proclaimed pundits, the celebrated author, speaker and occasional actor Fran Lebowitz tops them all with wickedly entertaining observations on everything from tourists and baggage-claim areas to cell phones and children who speak French. No topic is off limits to Lebowitz, and she’s rarely caught flat-footed by an interviewer’s questions.

On Nov. 10, Lebowitz bring her wry and sardonic wit to the Pabst theater. Although she’s performed at venues around the world, this is her first time appearing in Milwaukee. Lebowitz’s show will consist of a 30-minute interview with a moderator followed by a one-hour question-and-answer period with the audience. Lebowitz recently spoke with the Shepherd Express, in which she shared just a few of her thoughts on a variety of topics.

Some of your experiences in school were not so great. Can you talk a little about that?

On my first day of K6 I was put in a corner with a band-aid over my mouth and a sign that said, “I am a chatterbox.” I was four-and-a-half years old. Of course, if you did that today, the parents would be furious, and they’d sue the school. But this was 1955. Back then if you misbehaved in school, the teacher punished you and then when you went home, your parents punished you. Today the parents always side with the child. I was constantly being punished for talking, for what was considered “talking back.” Not that I was yelling at the teacher or anything like that. Talking back meant pretty much any kind of response. If their goal was to get me to stop talking, obviously it didn’t work.

The idea that children should be seen and not heard was popular with parents in that era

All kids were afraid of their parents, and I don’t necessarily they were afraid of getting hit, but simply because parents were adults. Adults had the power then, the authority, and we believed it. Nobody talked back to their parents. There was an unspoken agreement about that. It didn’t matter what race you were, or what religion, or what the family’s financial status was. That’s just the way it was.

Did you sense that boys were treated differently from girls. Would the teacher put a boy in the corner with a band-aid on his mouth?

I don’t know. I never saw that. But boys were allowed a little more leeway for their behavior. Not much, but just enough that you knew the difference. Being a girl today is much better than it was in the ‘50s. It’s not perfect, but it’s better. If I asked to do something when I was young, the answer was always, “No.” “But why?” I invariably said. “Because you’re a girl.” That was what parents always said. One time, I said to my father, “But that’s not fair!” He said, “Life’s not fair.” Turns out he was right!

Are women still judged differently than men?

Not to the same extent, but the people doing all the judging are mostly men. Of course, women judge other women by their looks, but that’s because they’re the competition. This has always been true, but it’s better than it used to be. All people are judgmental, that’s nothing new. It’s an ancient thing. It’s just not good for women. I’m sure you’ve noticed that there’s a lot more attention paid to men’s looks than there used to be. Let’s face it … everyone gets old, unless you die young. Unless you’re James Dean and you’re forever a sexy boy, getting old is what happens to you.

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Photo via New York Times

Fran Lebowitz

Everyone is sensitive about how they look

There are lots of things that can be done to reverse aging. Not so long ago only rich people could afford those procedures but now tons of people do it. The truth is, it doesn’t make you look younger, it just makes you look different. As I said a minute ago, men want to look good too, because suddenly they’re being looked at in a different way.

This is probably not accurate, but it seems 95% of men lose all or some of their hair. I know two men my age who still have a full head of hair. But that’s not an accomplishment. It’s in their genes. Sure, all men would like to have hair that but it’s not realistic. Women would love to look like a younger version of the model Iman but let’s be reasonable. These people are famous for their looks because it’s highly unusual to be that beautiful. They have a physical gift. Very few people are truly beautiful, or intelligent for that matter. That’s why we have the word average.

The way you dress is average, or maybe casual is a better way to describe it

I’m old-fashioned. I wear cufflinks, jeans, and some of the other things you mentioned. It’s not something I consciously thought up. I’ve always dressed like this as an adult. When I moved to New York City, I was really interested in clothes. I went to a lot of fashion shows before they became so big.

What percentage of your fans are women?

I couldn’t tell you that, but I can say that a large percentage are young. During the question-and-answer segment, a person will say, “I’m 22, and what do you think about this?” or “I’m 24 and what do you think about that?” How many members of the audience are women, I just don’t know because I never thought about until now. But I’ll pay attention at the next show and see.

You’ve commented in the past about people who play games on their phones or spend an excessive amount of time on them.

I notice it, sure. Like when I was on a flight from Dallas to Pittsburgh, I sat next to this man in first-class. He immediately got on his phone, and I thought maybe he was reading. I love to see people read and I’m always curious what the title is. When I ride on the subway, I do the same thing. But the man was playing some game on his phone for the entire flight. I thought, this is interesting because he either has the money to fly first-class or he has a good job with a company that’s willing to foot the bill, but this is what he does with his time. I asked him what the game was, and he was very nice to explain it to me.

I probably spend too much time on my phone.

I’m not saying that being on your phone is an immoral act, but playing games wasn’t so common among adults in the past. These days I see many, many people with phones oblivious to what’s around them. This is dangerous, especially in New York. I don’t have a phone, but I’d like to think if I did, it would never occur to me to look at it while I was walking. I dodge bicycles and skateboards all the time to avoid getting hit. New York City is lawless. You never see a cop anymore. The fact that everyone is on their phones makes me feel like they’ve left the city to me. I’m the only one that notices anything anymore.

How do you feel about people who smoke?

Well, I smoke.

I know that, but you just busted me on the phone thing so I’m turning the tables on you.

(laughs). Well, I’d never smoke on a plane. I want to, but I don’t because I’d get arrested. There was a time when you could smoke on planes. They had smoking and non-smoking sections. The airlines used to give out packs of cigarettes to the first-class passengers. Smokers get more fresh air than non-smokers because we’re outside all the time. There are people I’ve gotten to know just because we see each other smoking outside restaurants. Of course, there are plenty of people who look at me and act as if I was the only person in the world who smoked.

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Photo via Fran Lebowitz

Fran Lebowitz

The Internet and social platforms allow people to voice their opinions like never before

Yeah, I don’t know enough about that to speak to it because I don’t look at the Internet. There’s probably lots of terrible stuff about me on there but I don’t see it. What I do know is that the Internet has made everyone aware of each other’s opinions, what they wore, where they ate, all this stuff that’s kind of silly. It seems like life in high school or even junior high school. Wasn’t this bad enough when you were 14? Do you still want to be caught up in in when you’re 34?

Does the online chatter cut into your turf?

I’m not the monarch of opinions in any way, but it seems to me that a lot of this stuff is personal. Like what someone said about a singer or an actor or whatever. It’s not very riveting to me.

There are instances where people who speak out like you do get “canceled”?

Maybe I am canceled. I don’t know. I’m aware that it happens but it seems there’s a difference between what people say and what they do. A comedian might get cancelled because of something they did, not something they said. If someone wrote a song or a book you didn’t like or made a movie that didn’t appeal to you, then just don’t buy the book. Don’t buy a ticket to the movie. Don’t buy the CD.

You have the power to express how you feel with your wallet.

Right. Don’t support it. But I’m opposed to censorship. There are lots of books that promote evil ideas. They should be published. But if you don’t like them, don’t read them. It doesn’t matter how horrible the book is, it shouldn’t be canceled.

You admit to writer’s block, and often joke that you’ve been working your next book for 10 years. I think you’re writing every time you speak in public. Why not have someone help you edit your show transcripts into a book?

My publishing house has already approached me with that idea. My editor tells me I have excessive reverence for the written word. He may be right about that. As for publishing things I say onstage, I don’t know. People say I speak in paragraphs but that’s not true. One thing most people don’t know about me is that I’m lazy. Maybe they think I’m joking. But I really am lazy!

I’d like to talk about your relationship with Martin Scorcese

I’d like to talk about that too but we’re running out of time.

OK. Give me an adjective that describes your personality.

Delightful.

Any others?

I think ‘delightful’ covers it, don’t you?

For a review of Martin Scorsese’s documentary on Fran Lebowitz, click here.